DIY Preheater...another one!

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DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby rik-blades » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:35 pm

Guys, hopefully an easy one.

I want to build my own PID controlled preheater, for PS3 boards, on the cheap, naturally!

Here in the UK, we can buy a Halogen office heater, 1200watts. The one im looking at is on ebay for a little over 10 English pounds.

I could provide a link here, but im not too sure if im allowed to post the link. Im sure you probably know the type, if you google 1200W Oscillating Halogen Heater 1.2kW you'll get the idea.

Basically, looks like it has 3 x Halogen Bulbs, switchable 400w - 800x - 1200w.

I idea is to rehouse it, PID control etc.

Anyhoo...the question....1200w of Halogen, powerful enough to preheat PS3 boards?

Thanks for reading.

Regards,

Rik
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DIY Preheater...another one!

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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby TheBGAReworkMachine » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:19 pm

The 1200 watts will indeeded work, it may take longer to heat however versus a 2000 watt preheater. If its not much more i would recommend increased wattage.
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby sklickrick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:39 am

TheBGAReworkMachine wrote:The 1200 watts will indeeded work, it may take longer to heat however versus a 2000 watt preheater. If its not much more i would recommend increased wattage.


correct, as most commercial machines are 2000w + ( 3 stage excluding bottom HR aditional 500 - 800w)

there will be plenty dwell time there.. my first DIY machine had 4 x 500w ceramic plates.. i was well chuffed,,
you need to think more can be less.. you can keep the temp down on big elements.. you cant up the temp from small elements.

add a few more bulbs.. if the plug is fused it can only pop it, then again the controller will only have the bulbs on full load minimum ..
look for a calculator on here , sure i seen one :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby rik-blades » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:29 am

Thank you both for your replies.

Ok, a discussion on preheat times if you don't mind.

My previous thinking on this was to keep preheat times to a minimum, for a couple of reasons. Reduce the obvious stress and shock to the board/other components and not too long as to dry out/over work the flux being used. Obviously, not too quick either. Poking around reveals 0.5 -1 deg/sec to be the norm.

With that in mind, I've seen on this forum that the T8280 can take 10-20 mins to preheat the board to 167-170, 180 (whatever your position on this). Personally, id prefer slower, I don't mind waiting and im not trying to have a huge turnover of boards at the moment.

In my mind, 10-20 mins for a chip lift, seems fine. My reasoning for this is we are not out to create a sound connection between the chip and board. In fact, we want that chip off without Ram Bleed, Pop corning etc. From what I've read, to avoid these issues, slower is better.

But what about Chip re-attachment? We want that flux to do its job, but it has its limits yes? Just how long can you work that flux?

Sorry for the ramble... :roll:

Regards

Rik
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby code0102stinks » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:11 am

If a T-8280 doesn't heat a board up to 170C on top within 10 minutes, something is wrong with the machine or it's in a very cool room.
Mine is 110v version and I get to 170C topside in 7:30 on a 360 phat board consistently. That is taking too long IMO. You can't heat up
a board too fast, but going too long isn't good for caps on top of the board either.

1200W is as weak as you want to go. More would be better. Bench test and see how it performs. Halogen provides good radiation from
what I hear from halogen users on FB. A few guys on FB using halogen bulbs under glass. Lots of bulbs close together hooking high
wattage bulbs in groups of series. Like 3 or 4 bulb groups in series to get the total wattage where they want it.
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby rik-blades » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:37 pm

Thanks for the replies. I will take all of this on board.

Code, when you say FB? Facebook? Is there a group on Facebook too?
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby code0102stinks » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:35 pm

There are many different groups on Facebook. I quit quite a few groups that I was added to by others cuz I am not into that topic.
Private groups you need to be added if you want to join. Groups have been slow, but more guys on there that know more about
building machines than on repair forums.
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby rik-blades » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:38 pm

Do we know how well the halogen approach helps deal with overshoot? Id imagine halogen is much more responsive.
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby code0102stinks » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:25 am

rik-blades wrote:Do we know how well the halogen approach helps deal with overshoot? Id imagine halogen is much more responsive.


Overshoot for bottom heat is easier to control than IR top heat. You control overshoot with any type of bottom heat source with PID settings, but
what I understand what you meant. Yes, you can control temp easier with a heat element that can cool off quicker with power removed. Those
halogen bulbs appear to be inside some type of tubes, so they should cool off pretty quick. Not much mass being heated up, so less to cool off.
More responsive. Anything is more responsive than the standard old ceramic IR plates. They are like a hot rock in a fire pit. Even after removed
from the fire pit, they still are damn hot for a long time. The guys I know that are using halogen bulbs are under ceran glass. Bare bulbs will
blind you with brightness, but the ones you are looking at don't appear to need to be under glass. Be sure to use the reflector installed behind
the elements.
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Re: DIY Preheater...another one!

Postby rik-blades » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:13 am

code0102stinks wrote:
rik-blades wrote:Do we know how well the halogen approach helps deal with overshoot? Id imagine halogen is much more responsive.


Overshoot for bottom heat is easier to control than IR top heat. You control overshoot with any type of bottom heat source with PID settings, but
what I understand what you meant. Yes, you can control temp easier with a heat element that can cool off quicker with power removed. Those
halogen bulbs appear to be inside some type of tubes, so they should cool off pretty quick. Not much mass being heated up, so less to cool off.
More responsive. Anything is more responsive than the standard old ceramic IR plates. They are like a hot rock in a fire pit. Even after removed
from the fire pit, they still are damn hot for a long time. The guys I know that are using halogen bulbs are under ceran glass. Bare bulbs will
blind you with brightness, but the ones you are looking at don't appear to need to be under glass. Be sure to use the reflector installed behind
the elements.


Just as I thought. Great stuff, thanks for this.

I'll probably start another thread soon detailing the build etc, i'll probably need to shoot a few more questions past you if you don't mind.

Now im thinking about the Thermocouple for the PID.

Ok, because the Halogen wont hold heat, placing it on a Halogen element probably wont be a sensible solution. Using the MB top temp would work, but too risky in the case of bad contact giving an erroneous reading. Baked MB for supper anyone?

Do you know how the other guys using Halogen have addressed this?

P.S. hoping the bbcode quote works when submitted, doesn't work for me in the preview **

** EDIT - Sorted that :rolleyes:

Regards

Rik
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